[tournament-org] TournamentConformityDeclaration

[Geoff Kaniuk]

Dear Lorenz,

Than you very much for your explanation.  I must admit I have never 
looked into Privacy Policy on EGD - maybe its new?

The link to the pop-up in the EGD submit page is not very clear. There 
is hardly any contrast between the link and the background.

I am guessing that there is still no implementation of downward rating 
reset?  While we are on the question of rights, should it not be a right 
for a player to request such a reset under special circumstances?

I know that you may find it cumbersome to implement this in exactly the 
same way as upward resets.  But all we really need is that there is a 
feature where you can simply adjust a player's rating when requested at 
submission.

Without worrying about policy for the moment, is it technically feasible 
to provide a feature where you can simply edit a player's rating before 
starting the submission process?

With our current method of creating a new record, we are just going to 
get a proliferation of duplicate records for players - there are bound 
to be future submission errors!

Geoff

33 Ashbury Close, Cambridge CB1 3RW 01223 710582

On 29/01/2023 19:21, egd at europeangodatabase.eu wrote:
> Dear Geoff,
> 
> we did this update related to the update of our privacy policy: 
> https://europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Privacy_Policy.php 
> <https://europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Privacy_Policy.php>
> 
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 2:04 PM Geoff Kaniuk <geoff at kaniuk.co.uk 
> <mailto:geoff at kaniuk.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
>     Dear EGD,
> 
>     I noticed that you had a new pop-up when submitting results .  I have
>     circulated this to the BGA committee.  Most things are clear but there
>     was some puzzlement around your first point:
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>     o There was a registration process through which all the players were
>     informed of their rights and obligations as participants in the
>     submitted competition.
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>     Can you please clarify:
>              ... players were informed of their rights and obligations ...
> 
> 
> Well i didn't write this and i initially struggled a bit with it too. I 
> guess it's kept formal as we don't know the specific rights and 
> obligations of a tournament. Probably i'm not good in summing them up 
> but i try:
> 
> *Obligations: *
> Follow the rules of the game
> Don't use outside help (AI or human), don't use mobile phones, don't 
> take them to the toilet
> Report when skipping a round or leaving the tournament
> Children only play with approval / permission of their parents
> As you mention there are usually tournament rules or guidelines to be 
> followed, the EGF tournament rules 
> <https://eurogofed.org/egf/tourrules.htm> is one of them.
> 
> *Rights: *
> Right to not be shown is part of this but i guess a tournament organizer 
> can ask to make the name public at least just for the prize giving 
> ceremony. A player has always the right to revoke his consent later and 
> ask for deletion ie. anonymisation, actually with or without consent. We 
> have like two ways to hide a player: Just hide the history and 
> possibility to be found on the players' find page 
> <https://europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Find_Player.php>. An example of this 
> can be found here 
> <https://europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Player_Card.php?&key=17301064>, in 
> general we actually still show the name on the profile but in this case 
> it was not erased on the wall list (try find this player on a wall list 
> ...). If a player gets particularly nasty with us we will also remove 
> his name from the profile and from all the wall lists, this means he can 
> no longer be referenced when he wants to participate at a next 
> tournament, i guess in this case he wouldn't want to continue to play in 
> tournaments, so this would be a solution only if he stops playing in go 
> tournaments! There is always the possibility for pseudonymisation, the 
> EGD actually never does verify players identity or names. Name changes 
> are always followed (marriage still the most common one).
> I don't know about other rights tbh. Maybe right for a referee. Maybe 
> right for an appeals commission in case not happy with the referee. 
> Maybe right to play in a well organized tournament if it was announced 
> as such. Maybe right to have the ruleset announced (Japanese, Chinese 
> etc. ...) to be honest i'm not sure if these can be called rights. I 
> guess in general these rights also come out of some 
> announced tournament rules / guidelines.
> 
>     It is possible to guess the meanings of this, but better if you can
>     expand on the intention here.
> 
>     Regarding player rights, I remember Aldo raised the right of a player
>     not to  be shown on EGD, but I don't know how far that got.  In any
>     case
>     an anonymous record should remain.
> 
>     Player obligations regarding behaviour at a tournament could easily be
>     spelled out, and I believe that has been done in the EGF General
>     Tournament rules.
> 
>     But obligations regarding EGD are harder to explain -  unless you mean
>     things like reporting errors in submitted results - as the recent case
>     with Zhang Shi showed.
> 
> 
> True this kind of stuff happens. Not sure if it is an obligation to 
> later go check the results on EGD and report errors, i've never heard 
> that this would have been communicated to participants, it's more common 
> to ask players to check results after each round.
> 
>     At the moment the only people who see this declaration are officers who
>     submit results. I think that anyone who consults the EGD web site
>     should
>     be aware of this declaration.  Perhaps it could be referenced on the
>     home page?
> 
> 
> It actually is referenced in the GDPR Policy: 
> https://europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Privacy_Policy.php 
> <https://europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Privacy_Policy.php>
> 
> It took us several years to bring up a good solid privacy policy. There 
> were many doubts on how to treat the players' right for deletion or the 
> so called "right to be forgotten". Recently i worked a lot to figure out 
> if we would ultimately need to ask players for consent to have their 
> results (with name) published. If we had to recommend this to tournament 
> organizers. I reached the conclusion that it can be done, a tournament 
> organizer can ask for consent but he can also just inform the players of 
> the public nature of the tournament. We at the EGD are yet in 
> another situation as we are third party: in general we process data 
> which has already been published (for example in the UK rating system). 
> We claim to have a "legitimate interest" in doing so, actually the whole 
> reason the EGD existists is to calculate ratings and for doing so we 
> need the data subjects (players) personal information (name, rank, 
> results), we don't need to ask for consent because we have a legitimate 
> interest.
> 
> // Lorenz