[tournament-org] WhereIsTheBar

[TobyManning]

Geoff's example is not a tournament with a sparse entry (compare Gerry's 
Cork example, which had 13 entrants between 2d and 20 kyu, which was 
sparse, and hence run as a pure handicap tournament.) Geoff's example is 
a tournament with an outlier.

I asked a similar question in October 2015 (see 
http://lists.britgo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/gotalk/2015-October/000427.html 
- "Should there be handicap games above the bar?). None of the people 
responding who were likely to be affected was in favour of handicap games.

It is  unfortunate that many players - particularly the stronger ones, I 
am afraid  - tend to enter tournaments late,  which means that it can be 
difficult to consult with the putative 5 dan. And disastrous if one 
suggests they do not play - then one gets two 3 dans entering "on the day".

I recollect Matthew Macfadyen playing in (and winning) the Welsh Open 
(Barmouth) for a number of years - he had a large number of wins (50?) 
with no losses, and only stopped playing when he actually lost a game. 
Did he consider he was "shooting fish in a barrel?" I think not.

Toby.


On 01/10/2018 17:55, Gerry Gavigan via tournament-org wrote:
>
>
>> On 01 October 2018 at 17:35 Alison Bexfield via tournament-org 
>> <tournament-org at lists.britgo.org 
>> <mailto:tournament-org at lists.britgo.org>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> There is an outside chance the five Dan will not win all their games so
>> there must be some open even games at the top. 
>
> the rating system combined with handicapping is surely designed to 
> achieve 50-50ish not "an outside chance" (I'm guessing 8-1, 16-1 on 
> four stones difference)
>
>> We do not know whether the five Dan is a genunine five Dan. 
>
> I think this is extending the domain of the problem beyond its range
>
> We could equally argue we do not know the others are genuine either, 
> and a simple extension would be to ignore ratings altogether
>
> The problem is that it is a sparse tournament not where to set the bar.
>
> That is why in., e.g., the London Open we encourage pre-registration 
> and maintain a date stamped list of attendees, to minimise sp
>
>
>> As a one Dan I have no problem playing a five Dan on evens. I relish the
>> opportunity knowing I have nothing to lose and everything to gain. 
>
> I am not sure it is possible to extract a general principle from a 
> specific preference
>
>
>> I generally would be upset to turn up and find what was advertised as 
>> one
>> thing had turned into a handicap event without any notice of it.
>
> A well managed tournament would manage expectations. It might be an 
> optimising solution to suggest to the 5 dan that they were wasting 
> their time (or for the insecure, and since we are discussing chance, 
> that their current rating is in play in an asymmetric bet)
>
>> If there was s difference of say eight grades between top player and
>> next ranking player it would be a courtesy for the organisers to let the
>> top player know in advance.
>
> It would similarly be showing respect to the weaker players not to 
> treat them as cannon fodder - they are the ones funding the event
>
>
>
>
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