[tournament-org] WhereIsTheBar

[Richard Wheeldon]

My 2c - 
1. In answer to the original question, I'd have left it to GoDraw to figure out the right answer and trusted that someone more knowledgeable than myself had done the hard work.

2. If I'd have been forced to make a choice, I'd have gone with 1k. I'd have also been quite content with "it's silly, don't bother with the bar - make it handicap throughout" (ala Gerry's suggestion for sparse tournaments and pretty much in line with what we did at the International Teams). AIUI, the GoDraw workaround for this to set the bar to something higher than anything (e.g. 9p) or do everything manually. I'd be interested in better / cleaner ways to handle this.

3. The tournament organizer is always right. Having recently sorted out a bunch of these events, I have even more respect for the like of Jenny who have run these things in the past, for Paul who's picking up the IoM baton, Gerry for last year's Bar-Low and the LGC and for TO's in general.

4. In case the TO is wrong, see point (2)  <treasurer-mode>Unless the TO hasn't paid the levy</treasurer-mode>

5. Alison is right that 5d doesn't always mean 5d. Gerry is right that being beaten up by a sandbagger isn't fun. That's just  the swings and roundabouts that come with any game. Ce la vie.

6. There's nothing wrong with beating up weaker players but it's darn bad manners if you don't explain to them afterwards how you did it. This isn't the magic circle.

7. A certain player once resigned on move 1 (so he told me) against a much stronger player with the comment "Let's have a teaching game". For total mismatches, this may be a way for both players to save face and gain something from a silly mismatch.

8. I need to retire so I have more time to spend on Go and less time on work :)

9. All this talk about the bar has made me thirsty... :)

Richard

On 10/1/2018 8:29:32 PM, Gerry Gavigan via tournament-org <tournament-org at lists.britgo.org> wrote:

On 01 October 2018 at 20:23 Jenny Rofe-Radcliffe via tournament-org <tournament-org at lists.britgo.org> wrote:


On Mon, 1 Oct 2018 at 20:16, Gerry Gavigan via tournament-org < tournament-org at lists.britgo.org [mailto:tournament-org at lists.britgo.org]> wrote:

On 01 October 2018 at 18:32 TobyManning via tournament-org < tournament-org at lists.britgo.org [mailto:tournament-org at lists.britgo.org]> wrote:

Geoff's example is not a tournament with a sparse entry (compare Gerry's Cork example, which had 13 entrants between 2d and 20 kyu, which was sparse, and hence run as a pure handicap tournament.) Geoff's example is a tournament with an outlier.
you say tomato I say tomato - a good tournament for all players is one tending to an even population and if stronger players can't be bothered to enter in a timely fashion we should make a good tournament for weaker players


Nothing about setting the bar at 1k, 2k, 3k is going to affect the tournament for weaker players. Unless your definition of weaker player is well above the average standard of UK tournament players
I beleiver weaker is a term suggesting "less strong than" and is capable of being distinguished from "weak" or "weakest"

Thus far, two people (Alison and I) have expressed our preference for potentially being above the bar even if we don't anticipate a win,
I did not realise we were taking a vote. I am trying to understand the underpinning tenets of a coherent system including the purpose of ratings and the rules applying to the strength one can enter a tournament and the effect of one's own decisions on others including the long term health of Go. For example I have seen several weaker players in clubs not return having been mauled by stronger players. Perhaps I am alone in having observed that.

d only one (Gerry) has objected to the idea. I am not sure why it is Alison who Gerry deems to be extrapolating from a personal preference, rather than Gerry.
If you can identify a preference I have applied to me personally I believe it can only be I don't enjoy being sandbagged by people entering tournaments below their strength. I have not suggested it is a principle of general applicability. Indeed that is my point, we have to look at the systems, formal and effective.
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